FORD CEO ALAN MULALLY TESTIFIES ON CAPITOL HILL

[SpeedRacer]

Originally Posted by GT500KR

This country has the talent -- we just need to have science-based global competitiveness, not politics, steer our energy futures, imho.
As always you sum up nicely

Absolutely correct...

[Joe G]

$14B auto bailout dies in Senate - Yahoo! News



Congress votes themselves pay raises, yet refuses to help millions of jobs unless the workers make concessions?


I'm not saying the Unions don't have a part to play in this, and that they shouldn't look at making cuts, but what would the Senate do if a group of citizens told them that because of all the recent screw ups on their watch that instead of a 6 year term, they would have to cut their terms to 2 years? (might be a good IMO!!)

They'd go nuts and say it ain't gonna happen - they have a "contract" to serve 6 years before re-election.

Well - the Unions have contracts too. They should re-negotiate, but don't put a gun to their heads and say they must do it before any aid will be given.


This is getting ugly - and the dufuses in Congress aren't armed properly to make this work.


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[VaporDude]

The unions said that they would consider it but needed time to restructure the contracts. The senate was saying that the union workers make $71 per hour average while the non-union workers are at $49 per hour average. This includes the benefits plus the hourly wage. I don't blame the union for needing time but they don't need the pressure of an immediate decision that could result in bad decisions.

The senate is full of butt wipes that are spoiled and over paid. It's OK to bail out the crooks in the financial system but can't help out a manufacturer this size.

There are dealers around the St. Louis area that have marked down Cadillac Escalaides $17,000 just to try to sell them. If GM and Chrysler do go into bancruptcy, that would be the last straw for them. They will doomed with no recourse to survive. Who wants to buy a car or truck from a company that went bancrupt? Do you really think Bush is going to do anything to help them out? I think I would have to faint if he did.

[The Bone]

$71 includes the benneys. That consists of Health Care Pension and union dues.
I know because I am a union member.
If you take away all the benefits then they are working for about $50 per. hour.
I wonder if the import auto workers have any benefit package at all.
My health care alone was about $7 per. hour and rising. seemed like every time we got a raise it went to health care.
There was one time that we got a raise and the union asked for more money than that to keep the same coverage.
Some of the things that unions do make me mad but they help negotiate raises and hours and working conditions for all workers. I know that may not sound like much but its because of unions that we have lunch brakes and a 8 hour day.

[68fastback]

I think Congress should work for a dollar a year until they fix what they broke

...

Here's a summary showing the cost-of-labor disparity (page-2) ...as submitted to Congress by Ford. (it's an MS Powerpoint document).

[KR]

Originally Posted by 68fastback

I think Congress should work for a dollar a year until they fix what they broke

...

Here's a summary showing the cost-of-labor disparity (page-2) ...as submitted to Congress by Ford. (it's an MS Powerpoint document).

I think they should all be replaced

[68fastback]

Originally Posted by GT500KR

I think they should all be replaced

Maybe SAi will have some spare management soon...

[SLGT750]

Originally Posted by 68fastback

Maybe SAi will have some spare management soon...

[Joe G]

OMG!


You gotta see this! Click Next Photo to see them all.





Best of the Autoblog Speech Bubble Comics - Autoblog


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[VaporDude]

That is funny......

[KR]

Too Funny!

[68fastback]

good find, Joe!

[Alloy Dave]

Originally Posted by HSURB

My theory is, I try to tell most of the story with photos. Really good quality photos tell a thousand words!!!!!!
HSURB®

Like this one?

[Alloy Dave]

Originally Posted by The Bone

If you take away all the benefits then they are working for about $50 per. hour.

Where did you get this info? I've never seen a wage that high for a UAW member. Is that an average of the multiple tiers? Is that for a skilled trades person? Is that including profit sharing?

Everything I've read shows numbers closer to $27-$31/hour + benefits + profit sharing.

Dave

[Alloy Dave]

Where is Ron Givemethefinger today?

[68fastback]

Originally Posted by Alloy Dave

Where is Ron Givemethefinger today?

Here's the official nums on Ford vs "transplant" labor differences...

[SpeedRacer]

UAW and Unions in General are "WAY" over paid for what they bring to the table... The country is fed up with the union! They should only make half of their current salary...

[The Bone]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacer

UAW and Unions in General are "WAY" over paid for what they bring to the table... The country is fed up with the union! They should only make half of their current salary...

Hey I am a union man buddy.
I deserved every penny that I was payed. I worked my ass of for the money they gave me.
I dont know why everyone bashes the union. We live in the United States which is a union in it self. United we stand divided we fall. remember that motto.
What a union does is make the work force stronger it gives the worker a bigger voice. More members the union has the bigger the voice.
If you dont belong to a union then you stand alone when it comes to raises , health care, retirement, sick leave, overtime, vacations, seniority although my union didn't have that and most important working conditions.
These things were not just given to workers they were negotiated and agreed to by both party's. In some cases people lost there lives fighting for what we have today.

Non union folks have benefited greatly by union's because if it wasn't for the union we would work 12 hour days and lunch no lunch for you get back to work. To hot to cold rain it didn't matter in the old days before unions.

This is America and If you can make a good or great living union or nonunion then more power to you. I think professional Baseball Football and Basketball players make to much money. I never hear that 100 million is to much for a 3 year deal. Why is it wrong for anyone to make $100 a hour.

Do I like everything that unions do no. I dont like the fact that they think that I should vote Democrat. I think that they should worry about jobs and leave politics to politicians. Let me vote the way I want to.

The whole problem isnt with the working class. We are the ones that take the blame for it though. Banks got greedy and it finely caught up to them.
Now they wont loan money and I know that I cant pay cash for a car so I can't buy a car Automakers aren't selling cars for that very reason.
company's are cutting jobs right and left and people are scared that they might be next.So they aren't buying anything.
Sorry Stuart but you opened the can.
I hope we are still friends.
Rant over for now.
Art

[Alloy Dave]

Originally Posted by The Bone

Hey I am a union man buddy.
I deserved every penny that I was payed. I worked my ass of for the money they gave me.
I dont know why everyone bashes the union. We live in the United States which is a union in it self. United we stand divided we fall. remember that motto.
What a union does is make the work force stronger it gives the worker a bigger voice. More members the union has the bigger the voice.
If you dont belong to a union then you stand alone when it comes to raises , health care, retirement, sick leave, overtime, vacations, seniority although my union didn't have that and most important working conditions.
These things were not just given to workers they were negotiated and agreed to by both party's. In some cases people lost there lives fighting for what we have today.

Non union folks have benefited greatly by union's because if it wasn't for the union we would work 12 hour days and lunch no lunch for you get back to work. To hot to cold rain it didn't matter in the old days before unions.

This is America and If you can make a good or great living union or nonunion then more power to you. I think professional Baseball Football and Basketball players make to much money. I never hear that 100 million is to much for a 3 year deal. Why is it wrong for anyone to make $100 a hour.

Do I like everything that unions do no. I dont like the fact that they think that I should vote Democrat. I think that they should worry about jobs and leave politics to politicians. Let me vote the way I want to.

The whole problem isnt with the working class. We are the ones that take the blame for it though. Banks got greedy and it finely caught up to them.
Now they wont loan money and I know that I cant pay cash for a car so I can't buy a car Automakers aren't selling cars for that very reason.
company's are cutting jobs right and left and people are scared that they might be next.So they aren't buying anything.
Sorry Stuart but you opened the can.
I hope we are still friends.
Rant over for now.
Art

Thanks for your post Art, I think it's important to hear both sides. I've been on both sides...I worked in a union for 8 years and have since been exempt. The union I was in, IMO, was watching out for the wrong things...such as protecting the lazy workers. Out of 127 grievances filed in the 3 years of one of our contracts, 115 of them were brought by people who were, IMO, in the laziest 10% of our union membership. Our union was only 1,100 people, and I knew 90% of them. What's unfortunate is that the majority of the union members are good, hard-working people...but the worst 10% take up most of the union's efforts and cause the most problems.

When I was in the union, I got promoted to a higher wage rate. Some of the people in our union didn't like that, and keyed my car. They felt that was unfair since I'd only been in the union for 6 years and they had been there 25+ years and were making less money than me. I remember going to our union board and asking the President directly.... "If I could provide you 100% proof of who did this, would you recommend they lose their union standing?" He said "no, I hate to see anyone lose their job". I asked him what he would do to protect me in the future from such retribution, and he said there was nothing he could do. We later had two people come forward about who keyed my car...and the union represented him in a grievance filed by the company to protect private property. I was appalled that the union was protecting HIS rights rather than mine.

I saw firsthand people say "you don't want me to fix that now...let me wait until after lunch so you can get overtime tonight". I saw people sleep in closets while on the clock. I saw people ask others to scan their timecards for them. I could go on and on. I reported all these things to the union board, and all I got was retribution (nobody likes a tattletale I guess).

Granted, my union was not the UAW, but I have spoken to many in other unions who have similar stories. I also supervised employees 5 years ago from a different union...and saw many of the same things.

My experience with unions has not been good. I don't think all members of unions are this way, but those bad apples should be weeded out by the unions themselves so that the rest of the hard-working people in the unions don't carry that bad reputation with them. There are benefits unions can bring (safety, working conditions, training, etc.), but the unions I've been involved with have clearly spent the bulk of their time focusing on other things as I've outlined above.

Dave

[iceman]

I have little experience with Unions but from the little I have had I don't think the union is really needed any more. In the past there was a need for it but with all the laws and regulations now I feel like the union is out for itself.

That being said the folks that are doing the work do work hard and deserve the $ they get I don't doubt that. Sadly many seem to think getting to a point in the union means they deserve the $ and no longer need to pull their weight because no one can do anything about it.
Again my exp. is limited but that is what I have seen but it is a very small part of the puzzle.