Dave's Camaro

[Alloy Dave]

Ok,

Decided to start this thread to keep a log of what's going on with my Camaro. I'll be doing quite a few small things to it this summer.

First I'll start with the "pick up" story....

Friday at 11 am I got a call at work from the body shop. "Dave, your car is done, can you pick it up tonight by 6 pm?".

"Sure"

I spent most of the afternoon making logistics plans. I wanted photos of the pick up, I had to get a current license plate on the car, the registration, make sure my insurance was back on, arrange for someone to drop me off, get my checkbook so I could pay, etc....it was a wild scramble.

I arrived at the shop at 5 pm with Terry

The car was still in the paintbooth (it's the only place they had good lighting indoors). I looked it over briefly...it was just the color I had hoped for. The color is called "Redline red", with black stripes. It's a basecoat/clearcoat paint, the stripes are painted on, and you cannot feel the stripes when you run your fingers over them.

He told me they spent 12 hours cleaning, washing, and waxing the car (It had been there for 28 months, so it was filthy inside and out).

I had brought the wheel centers and trim rings, so we put those on.

He said he had not tried to start it. I tried, but it would not start. We got the battery starter/charger and tried again, nope.

I pulled a plug wire, inserted a screwdriver and held the metal shaft near a metal part, and had him crank it...we had spark.

Then I looked down the carb and moved the throttle, we had fuel (the fuel had been in the tank the entire time, so I knew I'd have bad gas in it).

I then pulled a plug...they were fouled/wet...so we ran and got a new set. I installed those and it started, although it ran very rough. I got it home and it was late.

Saturday I pulled the fuel filter and allowed the tank to drain into a bucket...it only had about 3 gallons of fuel in it. I drove to the gas station and got 4 gallons of fresh fuel, added some octane boost, and tried again...it still ran very rough and would stall easily. I changed the fuel filter.

I kept trying...thinking I just needed to get the new fuel moving through. It continued running rough, and even backfiring when I revved it up. This indicated unburnt fuel in the exhaust, so I shut it down and carefully checked the header tubes for temperature...a few of them were cool, and most were very hot.

I then pulled all 8 plug wires and checked resistance. Below is some key data in firing order:

Cylinder_____Wire ohmage______Hot or cool header tube
1 ____________OPEN_______________Hot
8 _____________3k_________________Hot
4 _____________1k_________________Cool
3 _____________1k_________________Cool
6 ____________200k________________Hot
5 _____________9k_________________Cool
7 _____________1k_________________Hot
2 _____________30k________________Cool

I also noted that the ballast resister for the MSD coil on the firewall was extremely hot.

I don't understand how cylinder #1 could be hot...given that the wire was open, it would seem it wouldn't fire, and would therefore be cold. The only thing I can think of is that the spark was actually jumping a gap on the wire.

I pulled the wire apart and found the following:


Note thw white area about halfway down the fiber. When I put the ohmeter on the end of the wire, I got an open circuit. When I put it below the white area, I got 200k ohms...indicating a break in the wire at the white area. There was also black tracing across the face of the insulation....which may confirm my suspicion about the spark jumping. These were Mallory 8MM hi performance wires, and were only about 4-5 years old...so I'm surprised at the wide variation of ohm readings across the 8 wires. I know they will vary based on length...but the numbers above could not explained by length alone.

Obviously a new set of plug wires is in order.

More later,

Dave

[Carnut]

You think maybe the needle on the float isn't seating, sometimes the viton seat gets hard and they wont seal. That might explain the fouling and some plugs way too wet.

Just a thought.

[Carnut]

or the power valve is rotted.

[Johnny Dangerously]

Bad phramis pin?

Muffler bearings?

Kanuter valve?



`

[TOMMY GUN]

Good info here, you all get rep points.


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[Alloy Dave]

Thanks Mr. Nut.

I'm sure the carb needs looked at...but I want to attack the easier things first. I had the carb completely rebuilt in 2003. However, I know that sitting around is hard on a carb...so it may need another rebuild. I'll get the plug wires fixed, then set timing, then go from there.

I have a question about timing. My car's spec is 4 degrees BTDC. I'm a bit confused about the vacuum advance...I think it's BELOW the throttle plates...so that would only have vacuum OFF idle, right? In other words, I'm wondering if I need to have the vacuum advance disconnected to set timing at idle? I tried it both ways and don't note any difference, which would confirm my thinking.

P.S. I have a Mallory Unilite distributor. The stock distributor was a dual point, but that damn thing was nearly impossible to keep tuned...so I swapped it out about 5 years ago.

Dave

[Shlbylvr]

Do we get to see before and work in progress pics of the car?

[TOMMY GUN]

Originally Posted by Alloy Dave

Thanks Mr. Nut.

I'm sure the carb needs looked at...but I want to attack the easier things first. I had the carb completely rebuilt in 2003. However, I know that sitting around is hard on a carb...so it may need another rebuild. I'll get the plug wires fixed, then set timing, then go from there.

I have a question about timing. My car's spec is 4 degrees BTDC. I'm a bit confused about the vacuum advance...I think it's BELOW the throttle plates...so that would only have vacuum OFF idle, right? In other words, I'm wondering if I need to have the vacuum advance disconnected to set timing at idle? I tried it both ways and don't note any difference, which would confirm my thinking.

P.S. I have a Mallory Unilite distributor. The stock distributor was a dual point, but that damn thing was nearly impossible to keep tuned...so I swapped it out about 5 years ago.

Dave

I think you are right in your thinking also.

I have forgotten so much of this stuff since owning the cars I now have for the past few years.


.

[Alloy Dave]

Originally Posted by Shlbylvr

Do we get to see before and work in progress pics of the car?

You won't see any difference...the changes will be mostly non-visible such as tune-up and minor engine tuning.

If you look at my other threads you'll see the restoration progress over the past 28 months.

I'll see if I can find the link for you.

Dave

[Alloy Dave]

Originally Posted by TOMMY GUN

I think you are right in your thinking also.

I have forgotten so much of this stuff since owning the cars I now have for the past few years.


.

Thanks, I'm continuing to do research on the mfg. websites (Holley, Mallory, etc.). This will take some time to work out.

Dave

[Carnut]

Originally Posted by Alloy Dave

Thanks Mr. Nut.

I'm sure the carb needs looked at...but I want to attack the easier things first. I had the carb completely rebuilt in 2003. However, I know that sitting around is hard on a carb...so it may need another rebuild. I'll get the plug wires fixed, then set timing, then go from there.

I have a question about timing. My car's spec is 4 degrees BTDC. I'm a bit confused about the vacuum advance...I think it's BELOW the throttle plates...so that would only have vacuum OFF idle, right? In other words, I'm wondering if I need to have the vacuum advance disconnected to set timing at idle? I tried it both ways and don't note any difference, which would confirm my thinking.

P.S. I have a Mallory Unilite distributor. The stock distributor was a dual point, but that damn thing was nearly impossible to keep tuned...so I swapped it out about 5 years ago.

Dave

Almost all timing specs are with vacuum hose off and plugged. 4 degrees sure isn't much base timing, but it sure isn't the cause of the rough running.

[TOMMY GUN]

What carb is on this?

Quadrajet?


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[Carnut]

Should be a Holley if its a Z28.

[HSURB]

I think it should be a Holley 4150.

HSURB®

[Carnut]

Originally Posted by HSURB

I think it should be a Holley 4150.

HSURB®

Petersons 5th edition of Engines published for 1969 engines shows a 4160 dual inlet Holley carburetor.

[HSURB]

Originally Posted by Carnut

Petersons 5th edition of Engines published for 1969 engines shows a 4160 dual inlet Holley carburetor.

There you have it. Good info.

HSURB®

[Alloy Dave]

Originally Posted by TOMMY GUN

What carb is on this?

Quadrajet?


.

Holley series 4150, 600 double pumper, mechanical secondaries

[Alloy Dave]

Originally Posted by Carnut

Petersons 5th edition of Engines published for 1969 engines shows a 4160 dual inlet Holley carburetor.

I don't have the original carb. The original was a 780 cfm list # 4053, unless you bought the cross-ram setup.

[Carnut]

Originally Posted by Alloy Dave

I don't have the original carb. The original was a 780 cfm list # 4053, unless you bought the cross-ram setup.

Modding it already, sheesh.

[Alloy Dave]

Ok, things have gotten worse. I got the plug wires made/installed with no issues, but the car still won't run...heck it won't even start now. I spent an hour in the garage with a voltmeter investigating.

I have fuel, that's not the issue. It didn't sound like it wanted to start, although it was cranking fine. So I pulled a plug wire from the plug, insterted a metal tipped screwdriver, held the exposed shaft of the screwdriver near a ground (being careful not to touch any metal), and had Terry crank the engine. I had to get about 1/16" from the metal to see any spark at all, and even then it's not very bright.

So then I disconnected the distributor side of the coil, and ran a jumper from that terminal to ground. Then I placed the coil wire (center of coil) near a metal ground source, turned the key on, and removed the metal jumper from the ground to see if a spark would jump the gap...it would only do so when VERY close, and it was still weak.

I then got on the internet and checked the specs for my MSD Blaster II coil. It suggested .7 ohms primary resistance and 4.5kohms secondary. I measured and obtained 1.2 ohms primary (but after subtracting for the internal ground of the ohm meter I got to .8) and 10.5kohms secondary. This seems to indicate there is a problem in the secondary side of the coil. I also checked the resistance of the ballast resistor and it spec'd at .7 ohms and actually measured about the same...so I think it's ok.

The only thing that is still a bit worrysome is that I only have 10.5V on the input side of the ballast resistor, which comes from the key switch. I believe this should have closer to 12V, and then the ballast resistor should drop it down to 9V while the engine is running...only allowing the full 12V while cranking the starter. If anyone can confirm this I'd appreciate it. FYI I have a Mallory Unilite distributor.

I decided to do one further test. I have a friend who has a fancy coil tester (I'll post pictures in the future). We used this and are fairly convinced the coil is defective/worn out. I've ordered a new coil, but it will take 2 days to get.

More updates in the future.

Dave