My C&R Radiator installation & findings

[TOMMY GUN]

Originally Posted by Dactyl

The real numbers are as follows: SEBRING DATA LOG with STOCK RADIATOR and DELTA T BY-PASS PLUG AVERAGE TEMP 245 DEGREES. During a complete beat down on track.

Installed the C&R Radiator with the same DELTA T BY-PASS PLUG AVERAGE TEMP 198-202 Degrees during beat down sessions at Homestead which FYI, Homestead is a slower track with less high speed passes. These numbers were cross checked during both track events against a 725 Super Snake. He had the same Engine Coolant Temps as I at Sebring. At Homestead, his temps were again in the 240 range and I was in the aforementioned 198-202 range after installation of the new radiator. The numbers speak for themselves.

And if anybody is interested, I had another friend of mine locally in South Florida ask me to order a radiator for him. Well the radiator showed up but he seems to have disappeared so if anybody is interested, I gots an extra one! My friend JAS427 (TS) with the 725 Super Snake also got one of these rads as he not only helped me with the R&D and install but he saw the findings first hand.

These rads are very inexpensive for the time being. These motors get hot. The cooler the better.

Yesterday at Homestead I datalogged a stock GT500 with a C&L CAI. It had been sitting for about 20 minutes. Engine Coolant Temps were 204 degrees. Mine after 20 minutes were 170 on average.

Now that sounds like some major difference!


What is a Delta T by pass plug?


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[Birdman]

Originally Posted by TOMMY GUN

Now that sounds like some major difference!


What is a Delta T by pass plug?


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Top secret ,if I told you I would have to shoot you...

Typicaly done for on track purposes only.

Maybe one of these days I will do a thread on it .....maybe.....

[Joe G]

Originally Posted by Birdman

Top secret ,if I told you I would have to shoot you...

Typicaly done for on track purposes only.

Maybe one of these days I will do a thread on it .....maybe.....

Hehehe!!





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[Johnny Lupara]

Originally Posted by Joe G

Hehehe!!





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..that's the deep secret, eh????

[Birdman]

Originally Posted by Johnny Lupara

..that's the deep secret, eh????

No just a cooling mod secret pertaining to racing.

[Johnny Dangerously]

Originally Posted by Birdman

No just a cooling mod secret pertaining to racing.

Drain the coolant before the race so your car is 10 lbs lighter?


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[08redgt500]

Birdman, a very nice pictorial and writeup, thank you very much! I'm guessing that is something I should probably think about doing after I mod the engine with CAI, 2.6 pulley, plugs and tune? That radiator swap looks like a big job and probably beyond my capabilities, or more accurately beyond my self-confidence level. Is this something you did for the track mostly and/or due to other mods you've made?

[TOMMY GUN]

Originally Posted by Birdman

No just a cooling mod secret pertaining to racing.

I just checked and your PM's are still working.


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[JTB]

Originally Posted by Birdman

Installation of new double capacity Radiator

New C&R radiator arrives
Rear view


Front View

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Removed deflector from underneath exposing …HE, Condenser, OEM Radiator and Fan /shroud unit
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Connected drain hose to drain

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After removing radiator cover and Front upper grille I disconnected Fan wire connector

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Removed (2) upper bolts holding Fan to Radiator then removed fan assembly

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Removed (4) Condenser to Radiator bolts (2 each side)




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After disconnecting the upper and lower radiator hose’s I removed radiator
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Side by side comparisons of OEM and C&R Radiators
I weighed both dry…The new C&R weighs 4 lbs more than the OEM does
I also filled both to determine capacity’s
The OEM held approx .75 gal of fluid while the C&R held 1.5 Gal effectively doubling the capacity of the OEM radiator.Here you can see the visual differences

The new radiator filled with water weighs a total of only 10 lbs more over all than the OEM. Not too bad considering the added cooling benefits


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Remove and save the nut retaining clips for reuse
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Disconnect ECM wire connectors to provide better clearance for installation of new rad.
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Install new Radiator on angle at first ,down towards drivers side to clear AC lines then level out.
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Be sure to fit into rubber mounts at bottom.
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One note of caution : the two upper radiator to condenser front OEM bolts had to be cut shorter to prevent them from going through the radiator tank when tightening them.
Next cut off approx 1” from lower and upper hose’s and reconnect lower hose using new SS clamp.
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I then discovered that in order to get the upper mount brackets to line up with the nuts in the upper radiator support I had to force the radiator in against the RS . Since I didn’t want any metal to metal contact between the side tanks and the upper support this meant that I had to remove some metal from the upper cross support at the point of contact on both the left and right sides.
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Using a sawsall and a grinder I removed approx 3/16” from each side by each tank.

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After cleaning everything up I painted the cut edges for protection.
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Your CF trim piece looks fantastic.

It must be disappointing that you had to trim some metal on your 500 to facilitate this install. It is annoying when parts arrive supposedly made for a specific vehicle and application and they DON"T fit.

Nice job on the install and great pics!

Thanks

[JTB]

Originally Posted by iceman

Thanks George for all the detailed notes and pictures as always.

I mentioned to C&R when I was there the other day that we had a guy that usually put up install instructions that were better than what comes with anything you buy. Would you mind if I pirnted this off and took it to them to help develope instructions and perhaps they would be able to include 2 shorter bolts and some type of rubber/sticker thing for the install. They already know about the clips but including this type of thing for the future would be a nice add on for the install I think for the rest of the people that buy them in the future.

I'm going to try to get mine in soon too - I may do it this week but if my rear end stuff gets here on Monday/Tuesday it may wait so I can get to the drag strip on Wed....then over the winter I am putting in the Moroso Intercooler tank, C&R Radiatro, and potentially the C&R H/E depending on the timing for that. I'm also going to pull my headers and X pipe and get them coated to help control the temps under the hood next season. My car has never had any over heating issues even on the 10+ hour drives and hot days at the drags etc. but knowing how we pull timing and lose power the cooling system improvements will really help keep the power we have on a cool morning for a longer time. Once I get the C&R in I'm going to go over and let them have a look too since they don't have one to look at. It's amazing how good the fit is going just off of Dactyl's measurements and details.....A great job by all for sure.

Can't wait to hear your feelings on the temp guage as you drive too....or if you datalog

Surely there are other aftermarket High-Cap rad manufactures that make one that actually fits. I would think twice about buying from these guys and I doubt that they'll want these instructions as they clearly state that to complete the install you need to take your Saws-all to your Shelby.

[JTB]

Significant difference. 40 degrees is a lot!

[Johnny Dangerously]

Originally Posted by JTB Consulting

...It must be disappointing that you had to trim some metal on your 500 to facilitate this install. It is annoying when parts arrive supposedly made for a specific vehicle and application and they DON"T fit...

While this is disappointing it is not avoidable in most cases due to tolerance build-ups. Even on aircraft that are held to tighter tolerances, some things are still trimmed or drilled on assembly in order to make sure they fit properly.


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[Dactyl]

Originally Posted by JTB Consulting

Surely there are other aftermarket High-Cap rad manufactures that make one that actually fits. I would think twice about buying from these guys and I doubt that they'll want these instructions as they clearly state that to complete the install you need to take your Saws-all to your Shelby.

Somebody else makes one? Not yet. Not that I know of. Tolerances are different on every car as no two cars are exactly the same. My clearances are paper thin. Oh, by the way, I designed this radiator and spent more hours measuring and tearing my car apart than I care to ever remember.

So, after Birdman's issues, I sent one of my test units back to C&R and they moved the upper stud mounts 2/16th's of an inch toward the front of the vehicle in an effort to avoid this for all users moving forward. (if that works, as I said before, no two vehicles are the same) As Johnny D. stated, even in aircraft you have to work in the tightest of tolerances. You should see what it takes to change the oil on a PA32R with Golf.

Ok, that was a test question, let's see who get's it right? My guess Johhny answers correctly first!

[Johnny Dangerously]

Originally Posted by Dactyl

Somebody else makes one? Not yet. Not that I know of. Tolerances are different on every car as no two cars are exactly the same. My clearances are paper thin. Oh, by the way, I designed this radiator and spent more hours measuring and tearing my car apart than I care to ever remember.

So, after Birdman's issues, I sent one of my test units back to C&R and they moved the upper stud mounts 2/16th's of an inch toward the front of the vehicle in an effort to avoid this for all users moving forward. (if that works, as I said before, no two vehicles are the same) As Johnny D. stated, even in aircraft you have to work in the tightest of tolerances. You should see what it takes to change the oil on a PA32R with Golf.

Ok, that was a test question, let's see who get's it right? My guess Johhny answers correctly first!

You got me on this one. Never got into the civil stuff too much since I work mainly with the military stuff.


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[Dactyl]

Originally Posted by JTB Consulting

Surely there are other aftermarket High-Cap rad manufactures that make one that actually fits. I would think twice about buying from these guys and I doubt that they'll want these instructions as they clearly state that to complete the install you need to take your Saws-all to your Shelby.

Consult this JTB. You don't know crap about this product and/or the people behind it. Namely me and C&R Racing. And you are?

Good, don't buy from me or C&R. We don't need you or your off the cuff remarks.

OBTW, nobody else makes a High Capacity Radiator for the GT500 and my radiator cleared the support where Birdman's didn't because no two cars are the same. So, in an effort to try and prevent issues like this for people like Birdman, we are test fitting a radiator revision on a 725 Super Snake with the front tabs moved 2/16th's of an inch toward the front of the car.

How many manufacturers make a certain number and find out things like this and don't make more waiting for feedback from the masses? 20 Radiators made. 18 Radiators Sold. One cut his, on his own accord, yet you have the where with all to make your statement! You have no clue the research that went into this product. Ask questions before making assumptions. You do know what assume means, I hope.

[Joe G]

Lets try to keep it civil here guys.

No need to badmouth products or people that we don't know.


Many thanks.


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[Dactyl]

Originally Posted by Joe G

Lets try to keep it civil here guys.

No need to badmouth products or people that we don't know.


Many thanks.


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+1. Ask questions, don't pontificate and/or assume.

I personally get irritated when people just blow off an opinion on what has been a HIGHLY informative thread and throws something under the bus that they have zero knowledge of the product and PEOPLE behind it.

I defer my remaining 5 minutes Mr. Speaker to my fellow Republican Joe G.

REPUBLICAN, BECAUSE I LIKE WORKING FOR WHAT I EARN!

[iceman]

BY all accounts this product works and works well. I am looking forward to getting mine in.

[Birdman]

Originally Posted by Dactyl

Somebody else makes one? Not yet. Not that I know of. Tolerances are different on every car as no two cars are exactly the same. My clearances are paper thin. Oh, by the way, I designed this radiator and spent more hours measuring and tearing my car apart than I care to ever remember.

So, after Birdman's issues, I sent one of my test units back to C&R and they moved the upper stud mounts 2/16th's of an inch toward the front of the vehicle in an effort to avoid this for all users moving forward. (if that works, as I said before, no two vehicles are the same) As Johnny D. stated, even in aircraft you have to work in the tightest of tolerances. You should see what it takes to change the oil on a PA32R with Golf.

Ok, that was a test question, let's see who get's it right? My guess Johhny answers correctly first!

Good job Van. I'm glad the feedback from my experence has been noted and addressed by you and C&R . That small adjustment should be all that's needed IMO.
I could have sent mine back for this correction but I chose to make the minor adjustment myself without having too go this route.....impatient I guess..LOL

It should not be any problem now going forward ...I think you guys did a great job on the radiator I'm very happy with it and glad I have it.

[iceman]

The fact it was addressed and corrected while still ultimately in the testing phase speaks volumes. How many things have been stuck on our cars that were mass produced and never tested (SAI/Scott Drake Engine Caps for example). This was corrected asap and is minor anyway IMO.