the ongoing Oil Catch Can experiment

[iceman]

OK guys I just opened up the 3rd Oil Catch can I have tried. This one is the "Corvette" version. I have now run:

1. The home made version from Home Depot/Lowes/Menards/what ever.
2. Watts - http://www.conceptualpolymer.com/new_page_1.htm
3. the "Corvette" version - http://www.customcorvetteaccessories...lcatchcan.html

This has not been the most scientific test as I have not been even remotely good about making sure conditions were the same, distance the same, etc. I drove the car as normal and when i got around to it I looked and saw what was there so take these results for what they are. Not a scientific lab test - just a moron that managed to erase pictures some how between the garage and the basement for this thread (so sorry no pics).

!st - the home made version: This version is very simple to install and cheap to get. I ran it with no filter so what ever difference that makes keep it in mind. I found I would collect a bit (say a teaspoon) most anytime I drove but never more unless I emptied it first. It was very small and a bit on the unsightly side but it was clear and easy to see into...which didn't matted since it had to be emptied all the time. It did how ever show there was some oil coming out to be caught.

2nd was the Watts filter:

I ran the small watts can to see what I would catch and ease the installation time. I litterally just plugged it in where the cheapo version was and let it hang since there was room. Some one said their drain plugged leaked but mine did not. I didn't get enough in this can to even worry about a leak to be honest. I was running it with what I think they call a particulate filter which is better for the gas seperation as I understand it (which is little for sure). I drove a long way with this one before checking it....Indy to Shelbyfest, 2 Dyno pulls at Shelbyfest, all over herman, MO as we stayed an extra day, and then home from Herman, MO before opening it. There was VERY little in the can but the filter was pretty well soaked. I was a bit taken back by this but I spoke to the Watts people and they are extremely good to work with and eager to help find a solution for the oil blow by issue. They have since added another type of filter to get the liquid before going through the gas filter and sent me one to try but I have not yet gotten to this. I have it in the garage and have scanned the instructions and will try to get some test results from it.

3. The "corvette" version:

This is the one that I had pretty high hopes for after hearing about how much oil people were catching with it. I even went through the acrobatic act of running a bolt and spacer through a hole in the strut brace to mount this big can the right way. O ordered a bunch of nice black fittings and fancy hose figuring this was "the one". I installed it and then when the hoses came nothing fit so i ended up using the material that the watts can came with and some half inch fuel line. I did cut up the stock tube to keep the quick disconnects though (then ordered a few more of the stock tubes so I have 2 intact now - 1 in my trunk next to my extra belt just in case and 1 in the cabinet to cut up for the next version if needed).

I did not drive this one as far as I did the watts for sure but i did make it to the drag strip and ran 3 times on street tires (trapped 135.58 too...a new best trap speed for me but spun all over the place). Anyway I drove all over town in and out of boost. I used the full 21 pounds at the track like on the dyno so it was probably relatively even considering the difference in miles on the highway which should net little blow by when on cruise.

Well - I opened that bad boy up today looking for some nice dark oil and I found not even enough to cover the bottom of the can - my can is tilted a slight bit so it was in the front side but not enough to make me thing I am in need of worrying about it or solving the issue if there is one. It couldn't have been much more if any than the Watts had if I rang out the damp filter. Not much more than the 1 tsp I got from the cheap version either really.

I took a pic but that got erased. It makes me wonder if Ed Martinez at PSE is not correct when he says:

"...I have read the information regarding oil separators and their use.

I soon learned that many people think they have an oil concern, but they don’t.

If I may start from scratch it maybe more helpful than just jumping in answering bits and pieces. An engine PCV system was primarily invented to help prolong oil life and reduce bearing wear. As a regular combustion engine is in operation the piston rings will always have a slight amount leakage or better know as blow by. A small amount is absolutely normal. As the compression stroke occurs a very small amount of A/F charge sneaks past the rings and enters into the crankcase. Over time the gasoline in the air vapor will dilute your engine oil subsequently breaking down your engine oil. Japanese engineers realized by allowing a constant regulated vacuum from the intake manifold to the crankcase would create a ventilation system for the engine. Simply put, a hose from filtered air is attached to the top of your valve cover that has been baffled. The vacuum is regulated by the PCV (Positive crankcase ventilation valve) that is attached the intake manifold sucking the air vapors both oil and gas allowing the engine to burn these vapors. Additional benefits were cleaner emissions with no loss in performance. At wide-open throttle sometimes depending on the amount normal blow by will start to pressurize the crankcase slightly and this air will flow into the filtered air side of the system. In a racing engine the can become a problem so vacuum systems or dry sump scavenging help prevent the crankcase from becoming pressurized.

Regarding the Ford modular engine profile. Air is drawn from the intake zip tube to the top of the drivers side valve cover. This is metered air because it is between the MAF and throttle body. The valve cover has a baffling system to help reduce the oil from coming out of the valve cover. The 2V modular valve cover baffling is terrible and can cause excessive amount of oil to escape and enter the hoses. The 4V valve cover baffling is much better. Reduced 90%

This improvement alone cures a lot of excessive oil vapor from entering the intake. A slight amount of oil vapor in your intake system is completely normal and harmless. There was a mention about excessive oil vapors reducing octane. This is only in the case that your blow by is so bad that the engine is junk and you can’t keep the dipstick down. It would take approximately 3-4oz if engine oil per 20 gallons of fuel to have any affect on the octane. I noticed that a few of you are very concerned with even the slightest amount of oil vapors entering the engine. Please understand that the supercharged engine profile 99-04 Lightning, 03-04 Cobra,. 07-08 GT500, and Ford GT have a oil vapor recycling system build into the design of the intake manifold. On your boosted engines your static compression ratio is approximately 8.5:1 and very little blow by is created. At WOT your dynamic compression ratio ration is 14.3:1 @ 10psi. For people running 16psi your dynamic compress ratio is 16.6:1 that means you will have a lot more blow by, but still this is not a problem. As air starts flowing from throttle body at WOT the crankcase will start to pressurize and more than usual oil vapors will start flowing out of the valve covers into the air stream. This air start flowing through the supercharger that actually helps seal the supercharger and protect it with a thin coat of lubricant. As these oil vapors pass through the intercooler they instantly cool down and turn into liquid. The liquid ends up at the bottom of your intercooler/intake tub.

At the bottom of intake tub is a ponding point where the oil will collect.

There is a pipe with a very small .070” hole that the oil is forced through by your boost pressure.

The oil flows from that hose back to the PCV and subsequently into the valve cover. Also the intake manifolds are designed to make it difficult for the heavy oil to flow up the sides of intake tub approximately 5-6”. The engine will recycle ½ quart every 3000 miles automatically and burn approximately 1-2 oz every 3,000 miles at the most.

Are any of you guys burning oil? If not, then there is nothing to worry about and no oil separators are needed. As far as the stock Shelby’s, no oil separators should be installed (sorry). As for the gentlemen with the turbo car, it maybe a good candidate for the oil separator, but I would recommend installing it higher than the hole in the valve cover. The best way to tell if you have a concern is if oil is making its way down hill to your air filter. At that point a cylinder leak down test should be performed. If the leak down test shows positive results I would recommend the SHM oil separator be mounted directly on the valve cover. This oil separator is designed to work correctly. It uses a series of screens to continue separating the oil from the air. The oil just drops right back down into the valve cover...."

I for now kept the corvette on one but when time allows I will try the new watts filter. It seems the only advantage i got was a bigger catch can that at the rate I was going would never fill all the way. I know others have had different results with this one but this is my experience and to me says the watts filter works as well as anything else so pick what ever you like the looks of.

[Birdman]

I too have been considering removing my Watts oil sep for daily use and only using it on "track days".

I recently recieved this E'Mail from Dave Sulli at Conceptual Polymer about my filter :

Hello, George,

Throughout the last year or so, owners of many high-performance vehicles have been buying and using my coalescing filters. While I completed quite a bit of testing with my own vehicle, I did not do the same with other types and I have come to find out that because very few if any customers have the equipment to monitor the condition of the filter element, some people have allowed the element to be plugged with debris, enough so that flow was restricted. It is for this reason that I am now recommending that most people use a 20-micron particulate filter. This filter will last much longer before needing to be discarded and is also less expensive. The good news is that it works with the Watts top piece and my glass body top piece as well. A liquid dispersion disc mounts over the filter element and onto the acetal plastic element retainer. This disc spins incoming blowby air against the aluminum or glass housing, which is generally cooler than the blowby air. The oil aerosols will condense and drop as liquid to the bottom of the housing.

Also, the hoses that are plumbed to the top piece need to be reversed so that the vacuum source (intake) should be plumbed to the "IN" port.

Within the next week, I will be sending you a particulate filter and one dispersion disc. I recommend that you convert your setup when you have a chance. I apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you and I hope you will contact me if you have any questions at all. I know that this change represents a longer-lasting solution that is still more effective and easier to use than the brillo pad versions that are out there.

Here is the link to my new catch can page. It includes a picture of the particulate filter and dispersion disc:

http://www.conceptualpolymer.com/new_page_1.htm

And here is a hookup diagram link:

http://www.conceptualpolymer.com/PCV...ARTICULATE.PDF

Best regards,

Dave Sulli
Conceptual Polymer

I'm still waiting for it to arrive and willl let you know what happens.

[iceman]

That is the one he just sent me - I will have to rig it up too since it is pretty easy to install in the smaller can. I just am starting to wonder if any of them are needed given ed's comments....even at high boost levels it isn't like I drive around in full boost all day...sadly.

[Birdman]

Originally Posted by iceman

That is the one he just sent me - I will have to rig it up too since it is pretty easy to install in the smaller can. I just am starting to wonder if any of them are needed given ed's comments....even at high boost levels it isn't like I drive around in full boost all day...sadly.

I agree ! My main concern is that I believe we are restricting the air flow by using the Watts seperator (or others) this could lead to premature piston ring wear.( the OEM tube is 1/2" id and the Watts housing inlet is only anout 1/8" id)
Plus there may be the added benifit of having the SC rotors somewhat lubricated by the little bit of oil that makes it through the OEM tube.

Still mulling it over in my mind. (pros vs: cons)

[iceman]

Originally Posted by Birdman

I agree ! My main concern is that I believe we are restricting the air flow by using the Watts seperator (or others) this could lead to premature piston ring wear.( the OEM tube is 1/2" id and the Watts housing inlet is only anout 1/8" id)
Plus there may be the added benifit of having the SC rotors somewhat lubricated by the little bit of oil that makes it through the OEM tube.

Still mulling it over in my mind. (pros vs: cons)

I am in the same place. I just don't know enough to say but reading Ed's comments and the amount of respect I have for his thoughts makes me thing a little getting in is OK - Just not sure where that limit is. I don't know if the air blows hard enough to be restricted with these or not but I am going to try running one of these bigger cans with no filter just to see what happens too. It would be easy to drill out the inlet to a larger size to eliminate any restriction but the filter itself I would think is more of a restriction than the inlet is.

[rpretzel]

Very interesting info. I might remove my catch can.

[iceman]

OK - I managed to recover a couple of the lost pics so you can see what was in the bottom now. Remember this is after 3 passes on the drag strip, a 50 or so mile drive there mostly highway, and probably 200-300 miles of normal around town driving. Like I said - very little collected in the "corvette" can too....maybe I just don't have all that much blow by?

[Birdman]

I recieved a new type of filter element from Conceptal Products today . Will put it in later this week.

[TOMMY GUN]

Originally Posted by Birdman

I recieved a new type of filter element from Conceptal Products today . Will put it in later this week.

I got mine a few days ago.

Problem is I used those Gates clamps, now I need to buy $12 worth all over again to change the inlet/outlet.

[iceman]

I have mine too but am not sure when i will get it in. I will look forward to your results

[TOMMY GUN]

Just changed my new filter piece over and swapped hoses today.

We'll see if this works any better.

[iceman]

I will be interested in your findings. I've not managed to swap mine yet but have the filter on my to-do shelf....along with a bunch og other things......

[TOMMY GUN]

Originally Posted by iceman

I will be interested in your findings. I've not managed to swap mine yet but have the filter on my to-do shelf....along with a bunch og other things......

In my one night run I managed to collect about 1/2 teaspoon.

That is more than I collected in almost a month before.

Granted I hit 110-130 a few times that night and may have contributed to extra pressures.

About 100 miles?

[iceman]

sounds like it is working then - I collected less than that driving to herman and back with 2 dyno pulls while there. Figure the dyno pulls were about 135 mph and there were as you say a few pulls on the street to 110+

I'll have to try to get mine on at some point too.

[TOMMY GUN]

Okay, at about 500 miles w/ the new filter and hose relocation.

Here are the results...


This side is original set up> < This side is new filter.


The bottles are marked 2000 miles and 500 miles.


.

[Birdman]

Very good TG . I changed mine around also but haven't driven it very much since.
I'll report back when I know more.

[Joe G]

How much is that - an ounce or 2?

[Birdman]

Just as a follow up to the oil catch can install.....

After recieving the new filter from conceptual products I reversed the direction of flow on the housing ( arrow in opposite direction of normal flow )and installed the new filter.

It is definetly collecting more oil than before but nothing excessive only a couple of ounces over a 3000 mile period of "average" driving.

[TOMMY GUN]

Originally Posted by Birdman

Just as a follow up to the oil catch can install.....

After recieving the new filter from conceptual products I reversed the direction of flow on the housing ( arrow in opposite direction of normal flow )and installed the new filter.

It is definetly collecting more oil than before but nothing excessive only a couple of ounces over a 3000 mile period of "average" driving.

Mine is much better now with the change also.

Originally Posted by TOMMY GUN

Okay, at about 500 miles w/ the new filter and hose relocation.

Here are the results...


This side is original set up> < This side is new filter.


The bottles are marked 2000 miles and 500 miles.


.

(Cleaned thread up a little.)
.

[gr8snkbite]

which set up is this affecting from concep? i remember TG mentioning something about it a few weeks ago, but hadn't heard anything about this otherwise. Details pls! Or do i need to contact them wrt same?