CSX4005LA engine runs rough

[twobjshelbys]

I found the controller (buried under the dash inside of the passenger side) but no standard scan port, so my friend suggested I take it to the Ford dealer (one of the guys he recommends). They hummed and hawed for a while and finally concluded the Roush controller is an old-style fuel injection timer and that's all. It has a "tuner port" but no failure code controller.

So they huddled over it for a while until one of their old guy mechanics came out and said "get the temperature sensor".

It runs rough because it is missing on 3 cyls... I don't know the numbering scheme but these aren't firing:


0 0
0 0
0 x
x x

(drivers side on left, front of car at top). The temp was 600+ on the "0" and 300 or so on the x.)

So that explains it. There started a squealing sound from the engine yesterday and I couldn't hear it except at idle (my ears were broken after years of farm equipment) and I knew it wasn't belt. He said it's coming from the distributor and could hear a tick.

So the diagnosis is "ignition failure". The ignition controller is not the best according to what they said and when I mentioned replacing the whole thing he thought it would be best (this doesn't have a rev limiter but the MSD he suggested does, a good thing).

[gr8snkbite]

sorry to hear that. it amazes me really, especially from where you got it.

[Carnut]

So does it have a seperate MSD unit or is the Fuel Injection Controller integral. You could have a bad induction pickup, plug wires or a lot of other things.

[KR]

That bites ..Good luck!

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by Carnut

So does it have a seperate MSD unit or is the Fuel Injection Controller integral. You could have a bad induction pickup, plug wires or a lot of other things.

I'm not sure where it might be. The plug wires have hot sides, but the nature of the beast of it gets hot (My wife asked me if it had a heater. Yep, a 427. After it warms up it is the best heater you'll ever have It can be a bummer in the summer though. I went into this knowing all of this but not expecting basic engine problems. The good thing is that this is really 60's technology married to early 70's. I put an electronic ignition on my 73 Chevelle. There isn't any rocket science here.

Trying to connect with Roush support folks. One of the concers from the Ford dealer was that the gear on the cam could "eat" the distributor.

It has three controllers: The Roush fuel injection controller, Accel O2 sensor and Accel ignition controller

O2 sensor:




Ignition controller:





Note that to get to the distributor the fuel rails have to be removed (or at least, moved). I will also add a fuel pressure gauge. I've seen them internal in the engine compartment although I might consider switching an oil temp for fuel pressue gauge if one was available. Wow, the mod opportunities abound. I could make it a supersnake and add a Paxton too. After driving it for a couple of weeks I'm not sure 550HP is enough






Roush fuel injection controller. EFI by DFI (Is that Accel? It seems to be in their trademark on the other components.)

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by gr8snkbite

sorry to hear that. it amazes me really, especially from where you got it.

No, not really. BJ is just a broker. No warranties express or implied. This could very well be the reason the guy sold it. He did buy it as a race car. Look at the oil pan:



The Roush specs say it takes 8 quarts. The Roush guy said more like 7.5. The Roush pictures mention a powder coated pan. This is aluminum. It took 11+ quarts of oil on the change.

This car is not quite stock and I can't find out from any of the parties involved exactly what was done to it. It was stated that it was intended as a race car (as were the three of them that were sold to these guys all at once.)

I dunno, I think if I can get it running it could be a contender. As sucky as it is it verges on scary - very light, lots of HP and TQ, and manual brakes. When I got the S/C I made a flippant remark about brakes only mattering if you are stopping. I downshift alot.

[gr8snkbite]

yea, i noticed the oil pan in your first pic's. definetly not stock. has the distributor cap been taken off yet? look at the electrodes inside, they get pretty scored up over time with deposits, affecting firing.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by gr8snkbite

yea, i noticed the oil pan in your first pic's. definetly not stock. has the distributor cap been taken off yet? look at the electrodes inside, they get pretty scored up over time with deposits, affecting firing.

That's what we'll do first. But it only has (just now, on the way home) 1000 miles. Methinks the failure is indicative of some installation or setup mistake and to just replace the existing things with anything will result in the same failure. More work is necessary to find root cause (what I do for a living actually, but in chips and not in large mechanical moving parts, which I haven't done for over 30 years.)

Good thing I didn't get a ZR1. After all, this is still 60's technology. I love it. The cam and the lifters bring back lots of memories.

[gr8snkbite]

nothing like the good ole days for sure. with all things being equal, the simpest thing is usually root cause..good luck. bed time

[JTB]

Disappointing and surprising at the same time considering the lump is a Roush.

How about ringing them? I'm sure the engine in your Shelby has a history.

Best of luck in sorting this out before the nice weather it really is too bad.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by JTB Consulting

Disappointing and surprising at the same time considering the lump is a Roush.

How about ringing them? I'm sure the engine in your Shelby has a history.

Best of luck in sorting this out before the nice weather it really is too bad.

I have tons of emails and phone calls to both Roush and HST but so far no responses. I think I'm on my own.

[gr8snkbite]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

I have tons of emails and phone calls to both Roush and HST but so far no responses. I think I'm on my own.

time for a family gathering and lots of cement...

[VaporDude]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

I have tons of emails and phone calls to both Roush and HST but so far no responses. I think I'm on my own.

Your better off calling them. I think most corporate policies is to not return e-mails. I have come across this alot lately.

[twobjshelbys]

Anyone have any experience with the MSD vs Accel ignition systems?

[gr8snkbite]

iv'e always used MSD coils on my cars and truck, never an issue, except for these coils i'm running on the truck. So much voltage they burnt up the plugs. After changing plugs all was good, so i attributed it to old plugs. So, no matter who you go with, change plugs at the same time.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by gr8snkbite

iv'e always used MSD coils on my cars and truck, never an issue, except for these coils i'm running on the truck. So much voltage they burnt up the plugs. After changing plugs all was good, so i attributed it to old plugs. So, no matter who you go with, change plugs at the same time.

Yep, and wires too. I've also asked which (if any) platinum plugs are recommended.

[gr8snkbite]

check their site. they have lots of data.

MSD Ignition

plugs are more of a personal preference, since there's so many.

[Carnut]

Before you get too all fired up on this, here are somethings to check.

Have you pulled the plugs and read them. They will tell you a lot. If you have certain cylinders that have issues, then it may be plug wires, spark plugs and other thing related to individual cylinders including valves.

Do you have enough voltage, low voltage can wreak havoc.

A compression test would be a must, if nothing else to check the mechanical condition of the engine.

Common ignition issues usually are the inductive pick up inside the distributor, a worn gear (yours is noisy?), the cap and the rotor. Loose or corroded connectors are also very common.

If all of these things check out, then maybe you need to look into the fuel injection controller and the individual connectors and the injectors.

I would start with the basics, and use a trouble shooting tree to actually analyse your issues.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by Carnut

Before you get too all fired up on this, here are somethings to check.

Have you pulled the plugs and read them. They will tell you a lot. If you have certain cylinders that have issues, then it may be plug wires, spark plugs and other thing related to individual cylinders including valves.

Do you have enough voltage, low voltage can wreak havoc.

A compression test would be a must, if nothing else to check the mechanical condition of the engine.

Common ignition issues usually are the inductive pick up inside the distributor, a worn gear (yours is noisy?), the cap and the rotor. Loose or corroded connectors are also very common.

If all of these things check out, then maybe you need to look into the fuel injection controller and the individual connectors and the injectors.

I would start with the basics, and use a trouble shooting tree to actually analyse your issues.

Yes, we will go exactly that route. The plugs and wires are telling us something. The distributor does make a sound that can be heard from a certain angle (it just started Sunday and at first I thought it was fan belt).

I was thinking of pulling one of the valve covers this weekend. One side (the one with two cyls. bad) is easy to get to as are the plugs on that side.

[Carnut]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Yes, we will go exactly that route. The plugs and wires are telling us something. The distributor does make a sound that can be heard from a certain angle (it just started Sunday and at first I thought it was fan belt).

I was thinking of pulling one of the valve covers this weekend. One side (the one with two cyls. bad) is easy to get to as are the plugs on that side.

Good luck, feel free to pm if you have any questions.